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Anna Gregor's avatar

A fun read, even if neither party seemed to think that the art/propaganda distinction holds water. (Me neither!) Unless we're going to dismiss effectively all of Western fine art made between the 16th and 18th centuries, when "Art" ceased to function magically or ritualistically and became the purview of social and religious elites, concerned with presenting themselves and their regimes in a positive light, it's obvious that works with propagandistic (rhetorical, persuasive) intent can be great works of art.

What's interesting about the framing of the question is that the dialogue arrives at a more or less explicit definition of propaganda (ideologically motivated, rhetorical, made with a specific audience in mind...), but doesn't even begin to imply a definition for art or any criteria by which to judge whether or not something is, indeed, a work of art (a much thornier queston that Blake dealt with admirably in his recent essay in the Brooklyn Rail).

My take: None of the works presented are propaganda OR art! Two mediocre paintings, one uninteresting print, and one photograph of an art historically-relevant found object (though, it's worth asking whether the artwork presented as Duchamp's is indeed Fountain, the found object, which was lost and, I'm inclined to say, therefore can't be judged as an artwork since it can't be experienced in person, or whether it's a photo by Steiglitz, in which case I'd be more inclined to call it (the photograph) art).

Kylie's avatar

A minor point of correction: Trotsky was not murdered in Kahlo's home, as CVF claims. He was rather murdered in his own home.

Now for a point of contention: Warhol's own intention or lack thereof in remaking the image of Mao cannot be the defining criterion for deciding whether the work is propaganda. This seems to me the least interesting and important part of the problem.

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